overcast #043
In this third and final podcast recorded in New York during the Machinima Film Festival weekend, Ricky and Phil discuss at length the whole notion of being an “amateur” filmmaker, what that means, and why it’s not a bad thing.
Thank you for listening! How much do we love your comments? We write them on men’s room walls to brighten people’s day. So bring ‘em on!
This Week’s Itinerary:
Music Credits for this show:
- Opening music is by Nine Inch Nails, from the album The Slip, the track title is “Demon Seed.”
- The track used to cover Phil’s phone call is something he did himself for the PEDS Season 2 soundtrack.
- These musical selections are used under the Creative Commons license graciously chosen by the artists. Please consider supporting them with a music purchase if you enjoy what you hear.
- Machinima Film Festival
- Eyebeam
- Wikipedia: Stan Brakhage
- Brakhage FILM: MothLight
- Criterion Collection: By Brakhage
- Essay: “In Defense of Amateur” (available in Essential Brakhage: Selected Writings on Film-Making by Stan Brakhage
- M dot Strange (blog, YouTube channel)
- FILM: We Are the Strange
- Alex Chan: The French Democracy
- Lisa Morton (writer)
- Wikipedia: Self-Publishing
- Steve Albini – “The Problem with Music”
- Fred Camper’s comprehensive web resource of Brakhage
- UbuWeb – Experimenal / Avant Garde resource
See also:
Comment by Kate — November 28, 2008 at 11:40 am
What a wonderful show, never heard of Brakhage either.
Comment by Ricky Grove — November 28, 2008 at 1:25 pm
Don’t worry, Kate, most people in the US will never have heard of him either.
Very enjoyable show, Phil. The music to cover the call is great. Man, that conversation is better than I remember it being. I had a vague idea that it was somehow just late-night ramblings, but it’s much better than that, I think.
I urge everyone who listens to this podcast to try to rent or buy the “By Brakhage” collection from Criterion and to seek out the “In defense of Amateur” essay. His work and ideas are profound, but little know inside of the US (he is highly regarded around the world). The Fred Camper site is superb. I don’t know of another site devoted to a single filmmaker with more information and commentary.
Looking forward to continuing the conversation on Sunday.
Comment by Dulci — November 28, 2008 at 3:01 pm
Very interesting discussion. I agree that there is more room for creativity in amateur work.
Comment by Anim8tor Cathy — November 30, 2008 at 2:31 pm
Wow – what a great Podcast! As someone who is a staunch, die-hard amateur I could really relate to what was said here. I’m going to check-out Brakhage too. Also enjoyed hearing the shout-out to my neighbor Mike – MDotStrange – who lives just down the road from me, brilliant uber-talented innovator. Be sure to check out this site – http://fromheretoawesome.com – co-founded by Mike as well to help showcase the work amateur filmmakers.
Comment by Overman — December 1, 2008 at 1:46 pm
Thank you, Cathy! Great to have you as a listener.
I’m totally jealous of you living down the street from M dot. Really looking forward to seeing what you do with iClone 3.
Comment by Overman — December 1, 2008 at 1:50 pm
@Dulci – Thank you for listening! There certainly can be advantages to professional status, but one of the things that I enjoy about being an amateur is full autonomy in that creative process… a quality that may not have much practical value in a Hollywood setting but certainly has appeal in a medium like machinima.
Pingback by Zarathustra Studios » Conference #12 — December 1, 2008 at 2:16 pm
[...] this month was a continued discussion of the notion of “amateur,” as discussed in overcast #043 and also at the Machinima Expo 2008. Discussion got a bit heated at times; people have very [...]
Comment by Anthony Bailey — December 2, 2008 at 3:11 pm
Yeah, the “amateur” vs “professional” terminology is horrible (although it is possibly the best the language has to offer right now.)
You already discussed how “amateur” doesn’t mean a lack of “professional”-ism. There’s an analogous problem lurking in the roots of “amateur” – it means “lover of” in French. The idea is that the amateur is someone who makes art for the love of it, rather than for profit. Now, that’s a nice association, but it risks being unfair to the “professional” who loves their art just as much, and only wants to make money at it so they can be with the object of their affection all of the time.
You touched on the blurring of the amateur vs professional distinction. I believe this is an important common theme across nost creative endeavor today. The key to it, I think, is the change in the economics of distribution enabled by being digital. It used to be that in many media you had to be professional, and working for someone else too, in order to get your work out to your audience. This is much less the case in the digital age. So we hear from many more amateurs; and we also hear more from professionals who work for themselves – the independent/self-publishing angle. Citizen journalism is a good example.
I suspect these days that for those enjoying the fruits of the creative process, “full-time vs part-time” and “independent vs contracted” might be more interesting distinctions than whether the artist makes money or not. Of course very keen creators have to look at the mechanics of actually surviving whilst they spend much time on their art, so the distinction will continue to matter on that side of the creative process!
Ricky, although I may be twisting your words somewhat, I do disagree a bit with what you said about their being no history, no tradition of amateur art. Perhaps not much written history, but if you look further back, then plenty of art has been amateur – or at least only sponsored by a patron rather than created for sale as a “professional” full-time job. In some ways the twentieth century, with its emphasis on “professional” career creators “producing” paid “content” for a mass market, is an anomaly due to the economics of pre-digital wide distribution.
–Anthony.
Comment by Zuckerman — December 3, 2008 at 4:43 pm
I want to make love to Anthony Bailey. There. I said it.
Comment by Randall Glass — December 4, 2008 at 9:04 pm
Great podcast, as always guys.
Regarding the MFF, I also think it should be more than one day, or at least spread out the panels so people have time to do more face-to-face networking. I originally planned to attend this year’s event, but when I did the math, I decided to stay home (NY hotels are monstrously expensive). It’d be great if there was an “official hotel of the MFF” where everyone could stay (and maybe even get a group discount). They do that for PAX and Comic-con.
cheers!
-r
Pingback by the overcast » overcast #044 — December 5, 2008 at 11:38 am
[...] Expo 2008. Having just come off their trip to New York, the “amateur” topic from #043 was fresh on their minds, so they decided to put it before the sizable crowd and see what they [...]